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Israel cautious of its technology getting into wrong hands; no war crimes on Palestine, UNHRC has double standards: Dana Kursh

By Priti Prakash | PUBLISHED: 17, Jul 2016, 13:41 pm IST | UPDATED: 18, Jul 2016, 21:42 pm IST

Israel cautious of its technology getting into wrong hands; no war crimes on Palestine, UNHRC has double standards: Dana Kursh Dana Kursh, Deputy Chief of Israel mission in India is a distinguished career diplomat with a diversified experience of working in social and technology sector. She has been Captain in the Israeli Army as a Liaison officer for bereaved families of Israel's Northern Command. With a Degree in International Relations and PG in Public Policy from Hebrew University she was Deputy Consul General of Israel to the Southwest of the USA, based in Houston Texas, Policy Advisor to the Director General of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Israel, and Director of the Cadets Training Department, training and supervising the programs of new diplomats as future Ministry’s management.

Dana Kursh talks to FacenFacts on a range of issues relating India Israel relations, Israel Palestine flare ups, IS menace, Defence cooperation, Jews, Brexit, among others

Excerpts from an interview with Dana Kursh:

Q. India Israel relations have witnessed a bonhomie & upward trajectory since BJP lead government has taken over. PM, President, External Affairs minister Sushma Swraj have visited Israel that has been reciprocated. Your logo ‘Land of creation’ resonates in our ‘Make in India’. How do you think India and Israel have come closer with common objectives?

A. India and Israel have very strong and multifaceted relations, from security cooperation to food security cooperation in agriculture, water management, academia collaboration, sharing technology and innovations etc. We touch upon government to government connection and people to people connection. It doesn’t matter whether it’s the BJP or Congress government in India or Left or Right in Israel, there’s a unique bond between both our people. President Mukherjee’s visit in October last year followed by Foreign minister Sushma Swaraj meeting with our PM, Energy and Water minister, Deputy Foreign minister and Defence Minister opened up a basket of amazing potential of expanding cooperation, opportunities and partnership that can be explored. Prime Minister Modi had visited us when he was CM Gujarat in 2004.

We look forward for the continuation of leaders coming both ways. In January 2015 our agriculture minister visited India as part of vibrant Gujarat. It was amazing display of the influence of India in gathering of leaders from all over the globe…(Mr Kerry, leaders of Asia and leaders from our cultural ministry participated). In February 2015 our Defence minister came to India which had not happened in many years. In  April 2016 Israel minister of agriculture came to inaugurate together with Hon’ble Minister water resources (WR, RD & GR) the ‘water week’  in Delhi, as Israel was a partner country for this event. Now visit of our minister of water resources is in pipeline.

Q. When we talk of relations I mean both trade and diplomatic relations. Apart from cooperation in agriculture, pharma, water management, energy, air space, homeland security, counter terrorism,  Defence cooperation with Israel is something that has ruffled feathers of some countries. Nuclear technology collaboration may be a headache for Pakistan and China. How do you view the future of the region with China hand in hand with Pakistan that harbors terrorism.

A. We look with fascination at the leadership of PM Modi and we see how your unique democracy works in a very shrewd and wise way. In a recent interview Prime Minister Modi on Pakistan said keeping on the track of negotiation we will keep defending our people and the national interests of India. In many ways our leader, Prime Minister Netanyahu back home is working in the similar way- Keep striving for peace with our neighbors alongside defending the Israeli citizen. We will keep on exploring amazing opportunities in our region and beyond.

As an observer here I can say that Israel has a unique relationship with India. We are also outreaching to other nations in Asia including China, Philippines and Singapore etc in areas of education, technology and beyond. Our aim, our foreign policy and strategy is to outreach the world and in order to a have a better and safer world for our children we need to unite and at the same time be cautious of adversaries.

We share the same challenge of terror. Just past week we have seen the murder of a young 13 year old girl in Jerusalem. India and Israel are both facing terrorism. In 2008 Mumbai attack, it was the Jewish house that was targeted too. But we can find in every country the ways to cooperate that will not hamper other relationships. Israel is taking care of its national interest by exploring ways of cooperation in Defence or Agriculture or other avenues. Our Defence cooperation is more about the cutting edge technology sharing. Its about how to better safeguard our boundaries and citizens. But of course Israel is cautious of this cutting edge technology going to wrong sources mainly terrorist organizations, non government actors that exist across the globe. We have a mechanism of connection between the governments and private companies for check and balance about who are we selling to, what kind of infrastructure do they have and other resources. And because of the challenges that we are facing we ensure that our cutting edge technology does not get into wrong hands, also seeing that we in our area also share it in a way that we are primarily defending our people. So I don’t see any apprehension.

But India and Israel are very good friends and they know to enhance relationship, do R&D together in areas of Defence and beyond in a way that can better safeguard our people. Even we are highly impacted by the complicated situation in our- neighborhood- the middle east. for example Syria situation- which is a grave concern to the entire world. We have a peace treaty with Egypt since 1978 and with Jordan since 1994. We have collaboration with them to face joint terrorism. We have renewed our alliance with Turkey. We think that terrorism is a global challenge and India and Israel are suffering it, tackling them through Defence technologies, Counter Terrorism while balancing between law and order. Just a few days ago in UN there was an initiative of India to discuss counter terrorism which was an eye opener.     

Q. West Asia is in turmoil. There’s a huge refugee crisis . Brexit has given its vote against immigrants. Europe is  smelling a danger in it. What does Israel think of this problem and a solution to the thousands of humans suffering. Does Israel support Brexit?

A. Its again one of the challenges of the 21st century and in this interdependent world with no boundaries, I look at it as a humanitarian crisis. Stories of people crossing by boats and dying on the way to find new destination are gut wrenching. I think the EU leadership is trying to balance between outreaching, aiding humanitarian needs while protecting their citizens. I think the world is addressing the problem but more needs to be done on that.

As for immigration I can say that ours is an amazing story of absorbing refugees. Creation of the state of Israel is an great success story. How Israel 68 years ago was formed with around 600,000 inhabitants, after 68 years we are 8 million, absorbing people from all over the globe, providing a homeland for jews who were refugees from different countries (at the year of our independence), many of them were survivors of the Holocaust and refugees from Arab countries. In 1990’s we were 5 million Israeli’s and we absorbed 1 million jews who came from former Soviet union. There was a unique mechanism with providing everybody a common ground. We found ways to connect and unify them by teaching them Hebrew language. Even army was an absorption way of giving sense of patriotism and safeguarding the country. The contribution of 1 million Jews who came from all over the former Soviet Union contributed to our economy. Our Defence minister is a former Soviet Union immigrant. So it can be a huge opportunity to receive new people but the immigration from our region to Europe is different and much more complicated. The need is to help uniting international efforts to help the refugees and the forces for countering terrorism.

On Brexit, its not for me to judge whether it is right or wrong but I hear that the jury is still on it. They still don’t know when will it happen, what is the democratic procedure within Britain, how will EU react, what’s going on in UK…what about its impact on India, its economy, I think it’s the manifestation of the complexities of the world.

Israel relations with EU are diverse. They are big trade partners for us alongside research cooperation etc. We also have a unique relationship with UK. I am sure and hope that whatever the judgement will be will not affect us as we do not want to land up in another turmoil.   

Q. Violence has picked up in your region as well. Why have talks always failed- there’s an underlying trust deficit between both countries. Innocent people are reciprocally attacked on both sides. There was a report that radical islamists are taking advantage and inciting Palestinians to kill Jews this side. On the other hand Israel has always been blamed for war crimes in UNHRC. Can there be a peaceful solution to Israel Palestinian conflict? Also what is Israel’s stand on Kashmir issue.

A. Yes, we keep on hoping for peace with the Palestinians people’ but nowadays there is a lot of mistrust between both Israelis and Palestinians, negotiations have not been so fruitful. We want peace with our neighbors. When I was a child I used to go with my father to homes of my Palestinian neighbors. People 2 People connection does exist but there are ups and downs. There was a wonderful optimism of 1993 when we reached an understanding with the Palestinians on how peace could be attained, how we could put aside the mistrust but unfortunately there have been lots of setbacks.

There’s a saying that the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Their leadership did not take advantage of any opportunity to sit and negotiate with us. Our Prime Minister and our leadership in every international forum invited negotiations every time with no preliminary conditions. Issue of terrorism is one of the setbacks similar to India. Whenever there is progress some of them choose terrorism, wherever, it can be in the heart of Tel Aviv, or a new upscale area like Sarona, like Hauz Khas area of Delhi. Suddenly 2 Palestinian gunmen shoot all the diners in the restaurant. Some of my friends they say we will come to visit me in Israel only when peace returns. I say you must come-not surrender to the fear, otherwise this is how terror wins. Day after the attack on Israel’s Hauz Khas some foreign diplomats choose to visit the same place for dinner. This is the way to overcome terror.

Israel similarly like India is living a normal life in abnormal situation. I can imagine the plight of the parents of this 13 year old child, but I know we will keep on striving for peace with Palestinians and other nations.

As for UNHRC, with due respect to it I say that it is politics that’s hijacking the essence. The role of UN and UNHRC is to protect the world from atrocities, but this organization instead of dealing with the influx of refugees from Syria, keeps accusing us and allocating their votes on this issue. They have double standards on this issue. If there is, god forbid, any wrong doing in Israel the legal system and our leadership will investigate every so called crime. Any soldier, politicians or citizen who commits a crime will be sentenced. We are doing a lot of self scrutiny but this organization is dealing with issues hypocritically. They should address what’s going on in the Middle East and on IS and their ramifications by recognizing the fact that we are losing lives of people in this wave of terrorism. Hamas launched rockets just last week. This is not being discussed in UNHRC.

I will say that there are no war crimes. There is no pounding of any kind. No. Israeli defence forces only target specific terrorist areas. The orders are given by the government, not by an individuals and in that process if there are casualties we investigate. Israel’s moral ground is to defend our citizens and never hurt other people. Unfortunately Hamas is choosing their targets using human shield of Palestinian children and families, placing themselves in hospitals and schools because they know that our morals and values will not let us launch a missiles on these places.

We are a democratic country and our policy is trying to balance between defending our people and to see that we are not hijacked by those trying to pull us into traps of killing our people.

As regards Kashmir problem it is for the federal leadership and the state leadership of Jammu Kashmir to solve the issue as we handle our problems back home.

Q. How do you view the menace of IS spreading around the globe. It is in your neighborhood. Its at the doorsteps of India. Youths from across the globe are joining them and coming back to their country to carry out attacks. How can India Israel strategize to counter them apart from intelligence sharing.

 A: IS is a grave threat to the world. We are all united together in this fight with the different coalitions trying to tackle with them and it is best done with G2G collaboration. In 2014 a treaty was signed between India & Israel on the issue of homeland security. India’s home minister visited Israel and based on the talks 4 different working groups were made for tackling this issue. One working group eg is on the issue of how to safeguard the border, another working group is police modernization…how to build our forces better to be able to face the challenges of terrorism from within & also counter terrorism. This infrastructure is for G2G umbrella, from that trickles down the impact of sharing the expertise, the knowledge for both of our nations. There is collaboration in R&D, in developing technologies, and as we speak now a batch of almost 150 policemen from Hyderabad academy will be in Israel for training.

In Israel, terrorist organizations down south are using tunnels to get to Israel and bomb our nurseries and schools. We are finding ways to have more technological solutions to counter that too but its very complicated. There’s no magic way of solving the issue. Whenever Israel comes out with a solution to counter Palestinian rockets in the south of Israel they come with underground tunnels, planning 1 step ahead. The fight can be countered by having cutting edge technology on the one hand and collaboration and sharing intelligence. It is happening between India and Israel and in all the likeminded democratic countries including US, EU.

Q.  Israel is predominantly a Jews country. What challenges/problems do Jews face demographically, semitically, culturally in other parts of the world or in India?

A. Israel is a jewish democratic state. We have 80 % jews population, 20% christains, muslims and other people. Jewish people had suffered the holocaust. Eli Wiesel, who just passed away, was one of the leaders who tried to tell the amazing story of the holocaust - 6 million Jews who lost their lives just because they were Jewish, together with 5 million non-jews.   

We have a rich history. Let’s look at the present. In India we are not facing any anti Semitism. There’s a unique Jewish community here that still lives in Mumbai, Kolkata, Kochi and sustain their heritage and see themselves as Indians first.

This year we just lost Gen Jacob, your hero, which we can call our hero as well because he was a jew. He was first and foremost Indian. That’s the quality of democracy, of giving minorities the freedom to reach the highest ranks whether its in the military or in the political avenues. I myself am a jew and happy to be part of a democracy back home and here that gives the freedom of practicing any religion with a unique system of check and balances.

However there are places on the globe that unfortunately face anti-Semitism, like in Iran, denying of the holocaust, denying the rights to Jewish people in the homeland, Israel. . For example, in May this year, Iran convened a special Holocaust-denial cartoon contest. Unfortunately there is in Europe of 2016 and in other places, manifestation of anti-Semitism. I am happy that in India its not an issue. We call all the nation on the globe to fight it because today its about jewish, about xenophobia and hatred for the people who are different from you. Its a source of evil, the essence of hatred, its something that should be obsolete. I am happy that we, since 3000 years of the people of Israel, were able to go back to Israel, to the land of jewish people to build democratic nation which gives the right to jews and non-jews to enjoy freedom of religious in our state of Israel.  

         
Q. India Israel tourism has a lot of potential. Not many Israeli’s visit India and vis versa. Tourism is the best way to popularize a country’s culture, people and boost economy and job opportunities. Jerusalem is ‘Start up’ city, India too ‘Start Up’ nation. How can both promote tourism start ups mutually? Does Israel government and ministry plan a tourism awareness campaign to enhance tourism?


A. Both countries need to do much more in tourism sector. I, as a diplomat bring Israel to India and on many occasions take India to Israel. Both countries have so much to offer. A little more than 40,000 tourists visit from both side probably. The fact that leaders are going back and forth is a good sign. We have a tourism attaché in Mumbai to promote tourism. Connectivity is an issue. We wish we have more flights and more airlines. Also there is no direct connectivity from Tel Aviv to Delhi (there is a direct flight from Tel Aviv to Mumbai) . Air India is not coming directly to Israel, hope that will come one day. I do think that both nations can promote tourism more to enhance the connections between our nations- which is amazing. When I walk in Jerusalem I feel that I can touch history, and also here living in India- I feel the same
 
As a start up nation you can see the ancient history as well as the modern cutting edge technologies. I call on Indians to come and visit Israel. Israel is the jewel of the crown. Nowdays we are conducting a competition among Indian women entrepreneur. The winner will go to share her expertise with Israeli entrepreneurs back home.

Israel is an amazing destination to come. It’s a small state that can be visited from north to south in 8 hours time. Its a walk in the history of different ancient religions. Only when I went on a posting as a younger diplomat both in the US and in here I learnt to appreciate what my country has to offer, in the fact that you can walk in history and modernity together. In the north there is snow and sea of Galilee, a tiny lake, the Bahai gardens, the centre of Bahai religion. In Tel Aviv there are beaches. The young generation who party in the bars at night work in the high tech industry in the day time. Climb up to Jerusalem, in an area of 1 km you can see everything, the holy sites to the 3 monotheistic religions, including Indian nuns that are working there, worshipping their religion. There is Nazarth the birthplace of Jesus family. Go down south to the Negev desert, make desert bloom and share experiences of water shortage. Eilat, a leisure site, the gorgeous Dead sea. In 10 days you are seeing everything.

Q. Israel is a country that being a democracy where a youth, man or woman, have to compulsorily enroll in the military for a said number of years, how has it affected the society, culture, women liberation, traditions.

A. I myself was in the army and a captain in the unique role of a captain for bereaved families for the northern command. These are forces allocated to keep in connect with the families who have lost their soldiers. The army allocates resources for the welfare of its people and that’s an important component of our society. We have women in high ranking position in defence and beyond. We also have combative pilots. It’s a manifestation of democracy and women have equal rights in every democracy.

Youngsters under the age of 18 are enrolled, women for 2 yrs and men for 3 yrs. From a teenager one suddenly becomes an adult. It inculcates morals and ethics which we then learn from protecting our country and safeguarding each other. In the same breath I do hope to have peace soon and no need of the military stint, god willing. I do think that for the kind of challenge that Israel is facing in the region it is necessary. I see it benefits our society and makes it resilient with the right moral ethics and learning leadership.